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Notes From Apple's Meeting With Indie Bands
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @10:20AM (#148)
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The notes mention that Jobs reminded them that they have 41 billion in the bank. Huh? That MUST be a typo. 4.1 billion would be more realistic.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @01:59PM (#12534)
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @10:51AM (#33940)
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They mentioned that you could not buy a CD from iTunes...
This is the one thing that would make me use iTunes. The ability to download an album and have the CD sent to me as well. Until this happens I won't be buying any music from iTunes.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @05:59PM (#12497)
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Are you a friggin' moron or just an idiot, go back to Limewire and then call amazon, pendejo cabron...
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @02:43PM (#33908)
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You're telling me that with all the CD burners in and attached to Macs out there, you think they should offer to sell their customers who just downloaded an album a CD that they can wait to arrive via sl-o-o-o-w truck while they watch their fingernails grow?
Can anyone else say "TROLL"?
If you are too lazy to burn a CD from the tracks/albums you purchase from iTunes, then you need to leave iTunes alone, walk (don't drive, that sounds like it'd be too quick for you) to your local rip-off CD retailer, and buy a CD from them.
Or, maybe you actually work in, manage, or god-forbid OWN a CD retail store? That would explain your idiotic comment...
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @09:04PM (#12504)
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Calm down, man. Some of us like having the jewel case, if nothing more. Liner notes are pretty!
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @10:38PM (#33927)
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The false assumption you're making is that burning a CD from the AACs you downloaded is equivalent to buying the CD. As far as I'm concerned, it's not the same thing at all. Not only do you get the jewel case and liner notes as the other AC pointed out, but you also get a full quality version that hasn't been through a lossy compression algorithm. I do appreciate the convenience of simply downloading the AACs instead of waiting for the CD to arrive and ripping them, but I still want the CD. That's why it would be great if the iTMS offered an option to buy the music in both format simultaneously.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Monday June 09, @01:00AM (#12565)
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Ok, so how much more would you pay to get the CD? If it is not at least $3 + shipping... I don't think it makes sense from Apple's point of view. And I would guess that most people paying $10-$13 for a downloaded Album would not fork out $4 more to get the CD. I could be wrong.
Also, although you do lose something in the translation, most people who have done the side by side tests on their less than perfect home systems can't tell the difference. We all know it is there, but few of us have the listening equiptment to notice.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Monday June 09, @12:28PM (#156)
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CDs purchased from most B&M stores typically run me $13-18, while those purchased online usually cost the same to $1-2 less depending on shipping method & how many I buy at a time. If I could get the CD & the downloads from the iTMS for the same money I pay at a B&M retailer, I would do all my purchasing there. Some people might not pay quite that much, so it would be ideal if they could match Amazon's prices.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @11:32AM (#33935)
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They're going to partner with Amazon to sell the physicl CDs (check out ThinkSecret).
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No offense, but if you just want to buy RIAA produced cd's, then the itunes music store isn't for you.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @12:11PM (#34002)
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you don't get it.
people already sell cd's.. they do it well. why would apple try to compete with them?
the point is that this is an untapped market. they are filling a need that no one else has. there is no point to compete against someone that's been hawking overpriced plastic for years..
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @01:48PM (#33982)
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I'm not the AC you're responding to, but I think you don't get it. The point is that most of us don't want to buy the same music twice, and many of us aren't willing to give up the CD, with it's full 16/44.1 PCM quality audio, liner notes, etc. I'd rather buy the CD and rip AACs from it than buy the AACs and burn a CD from them.
To me, the iTMS would be killer if you could purchase the CD and the AACs at the same time. You would get the previews, the instant gratification, the convenience of not having to rip AACs or burn CDs, and the full blown CD in the mail - the best of both distribution models. Price it under $15 a CD and I'm an iTunes customer.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday June 07, @05:26AM (#96)
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I've always wanted a pony =(
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Monday June 09, @03:55PM (#34255)
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I'm the AC who orginally posted....
Thanks to all those in support of my comments. You hit the nail on the head for all the same reasons that I would want the CD
- Like having the pysical product
- Want the top quality recording
- Am willing to pay a little extra for the CD as well
- Want to be able to enjoy my music in any situation. (Re cars that only have CD players with no line in)
To the person who said you cannot tell the difference in quality this is wrong. I have a reasonable stero system (around $2500 for amp, speakers and CD player). I have tried listening to a CD and then my iPod and you can tell the difference. Simple. Getting the most out of the music I pay for is what I want. I do not want an inferior quality recording for a price that is still quite high.
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the link to the notes doesn't appear to be much good.
any help?
t.whid
http://www.mteww.com
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @01:38PM (#33930)
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http://www.gnutellanews.com/article/6830
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @01:52PM (#33945)
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I got an invitation to go to Apple's office for a presentation/meeting today (June 5, 2003) about how to get independent artists into the iTunes Music Store. There were about 150 people there, representatives from the best independent record labels and music services, in this invitation-only conference room. Steve Jobs came out and started a two and a half hour presentation/seminar/Q&A about iTunes and the benefits of independent labels making their music available there. I type fast and had my laptop, so I wrote down all the major points of their presentation as they went.
NOTE: I've skipped the super-basic introduction to iTunes and what it does, because that can be found so many other places. This is the stuff that I felt was most important to musicians:
The basics
* The basics of iTunes Music Store are covered in many places, so if you haven't used iTunes Music store yet, read these links first:
* Apple's iTunes Music Store website.
* Great video showing the service.
* NOTE: iTunes is not a website! It can only be accessed from the iTunes software run on Mac OS X (now) and Windows (by the end of the year.)
* I highly suggest trying it for yourself. If you don't have a Mac, use a friend's. Enter your credit card info and actually buy a song. Tell it to store your info for future purchases. Buy a few more songs with the one-click system. I'm serious. You should try it yourself to really experience how amazingly cool it is.
* They're using a DRM called Fairplay to make sure you can't put these songs on the internet and have them play on another player.
Current Stats:
* There are 6-7 million copies of iTunes in use.
* 3.5 million songs sold so far. Selling about 500,000 songs a week now.
* More than 75% of songs have sold at least once. There is a wide breadth in purchasing. This is not only fueled by hits.
* 45% of all songs have been bought as an album. In other words: don't worry about the death of the album format. 45% of people prefer to buy as an album anyway, even though they always have the option to only buy per-song.
* 90% of sales are 1-click downloads. (1-click is where customer has credit card stored on file, so that as soon as they click a song title, it starts downloading and their credit card is automatically charged.)
* 10 previews (free 30 second listen) for every purchase. Meaning: 10 listens per buy.
Price of music on iTunes
* Songs must be 99 cents each.
* Full albums are recommended to be $9.99 or lower.
* Album price must be less than or equal to the sum of their tracks. So if you have a 5-song album, it can't be more than $4.95 to buy the full-length album.
* Apple strongly recommends going even lower than $9.99. They'd like to see that price drop to make the full-album purchase even more desirable.
* Only exception: if a song is over 7 minutes long, they won't offer it as a separate download. It will be available as part of the album only.
* There is no cost to put your music on iTunes.
* There will be no up-front advance from Apple.
* Details on the wholesale price to the label will be mailed to us, later.
Sales report to SoundScan
* Apple is reporting all iTunes sales to SoundScan!
* SoundScan measures per-song not per-album.
* So if someone buys your whole album, each track on the album is reported as a song sale.
* SoundScan requested to do it that way. It was their idea, not Apple's.
About positioning and getting attention on iTunes
* Apple has hired an editorial staff with backgrounds in music to decide what gets featured.
* Editorial team makes decisions every day as to what goes where.
* Big labels don't get preferential treatment.
* "We pick music we like, and we think everyone else is going to like."
* "We've had a lot of people offer money", but Apple refuses money, and has no plan to ever accept money for placement.
* Even what looks like a banner ad at the top of the screen is put there by Apple.
* When an audience member doubted they'd stay with this policy, they pointed to their 20 years of selling Apple computers, and never selling icons on the desktop or any of the other things that companies have offered to pay them a lot of money to do.
* (Plus Steve Jobs reminded us they have $41 billion in the bank and are not in debt. They're not desparate for cash.)
* They did admit that when a popular artist gives iTunes exclusive tracks, that may prompt Apple to make a banner an on iTunes promoting it.
* New releases sell really well.
* Exclusive tracks (songs that aren't available on CD anywhere) sell amazingly well. They're the best sellers in whole store.
* Occasionally they make a special featured artist page, with video, photos, a link back to the artist's site, and more. It seems this is just for very high-profile artists, though.
* Top-seller charts on Apple only reflect the last 24 hours. (IDEA FOR INDIES: get all your friends to buy at once!)
* Here's the iTunes info about browsing and searching.
What you CAN'T do
* You can not sell an album as album-only format without allowing the purchase of single-songs.
* Can't search by record label, although you can see the record label on the album info page.
* There will be no links from iTunes to your website, or to buy the physical CD.
* Right now there are no sub-genres, only big genres. (rock/jazz/etc.)
About the deal to independents
* They said "We're going to give you the same basic deal we gave the big 5 major labels".
* Same deal. Same agreements. Same team of people. Same treatment, all-around.
* "We have to be more efficient, though. We're not going to deal with 200 lawyers."
* "Everyone is going to get the exact same deal. It's not negotiable. It's take it or leave it."
* This is a reseller agreement: Apple buys at a wholesale price. Apple resells them to users. "No complicated or messy licenses."
* Apple only deals with the partner/label. It's up to the label to pay the artists, writers, publishing, etc.
* Rights are a 3 year term. For iTunes only, of course. This is totally non-exclusive.
* THEY PAY EVERY MONTH!
* IMPORTANT: the details will be mailed to me soon. They haven't named specific amounts yet. Instead, they had us sign a contract request form, and they'll mail the contract to us. That's when I'll know more.
EVERY artist in the store gets...
* listed in new releases
* found in searches (any search returns up to 250 songs for that artist)
* in the "browse all artists" list (the text-based view)
* an artist page (page showing all CDs by this artist, top downloaded songs, top downloaded albums, also bought...)
* an album page: artwork, song list, top downloads, references to other artists
* listed in cross-references to other albums ("people who bought this also bought...")
Marketing and Promotion
* 10 million customers have opted-in to receive a "New Music" email from Apple every Tuesday. Customers of iPod, iTunes, .mac, Apple eNews.
* You can have a link directly on your site to point to your music on iTunes. (Of course the link will only work for people who have the iTunes software.)
* Google has exclusive discounts for sponsored links into iTunes. Plus some personalized support.
* Macs in 57 Apple retail stores are pre-loaded with playlists called, "Discover Indie Music". A chance at in-store play.
How to get the music to Apple
* It's up to the partner/label to submit all the metadata (artist name, release date, song tiles, etc.), do the audio encoding, and upload the materials.
* Every album needs to have a UPC Barcode!
* You have to use their special Music Store Encoder tool for Mac OS X which will be released in 90 days or so.
* Independent artists themselves, not with a label, can't use this. You have to go through an iTunes partner.
* When asked if artists with their own label would be eligible, the iTunes guys had an odd answer, saying that this was invitation-only and they want to deal with those of us in the room.
* (CD Baby will be an iTunes partner, and will be glad to do the submission and be your pipeline into iTunes, if we can.)
Apple Does:
* Marketing & merchandising
* Advertising, PR, Retail, Direct
* 30-second Previews
* Infrastructure of download & delivery
* Credit card transaction
That's all we know for now!
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thanks! someone mod this up!
t.whid
http://www.mteww.com
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @01:37PM (#33969)
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James Higa and Steve Jobs asked multiple times that the details of the meeting be kept secret, so I can only imagine someone from Apple legal asked Derek to blank the page.
from the last line on the agreement you have to fax to get a contract sent to you:
'You agree not to disclose any Apple Confidential material to any third party, and to use such material only for purposes relating to a prospective relationship between you and Apple."
I wouldn't be surprised if Derek's company just lost its chance to participate.
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I'm an artist who's released some independant material and I would love to distribute through the iTunes music store _without_ DRM... meaning I would want my songs to have no restrictions as to where the buyer can play them. I wonder if that's an option? Or would I _have_ to use DRM whether I wanted to or not?
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nope you dont _have_ to do anything, keep selling audio tape outa your trunk if you want, apple wont forc you to use drm ever. land of the free aint it great.
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Sounds like Apple will only deal with the folks they invited to their event. The CDBaby poster has indicated that they'll help non-labeled artists get on itunes if they want it.
You may want to be in contact with them to find out whether or not the itunes music store software provides such an option. Or have them send a request to Apple.
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This seems like a great deal. Any of you out there in the scene that can elaborate on whether or not this really is as good as it seems?
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Because some people would rather stay as disconnected from Big Business as they possibly can. And some people are more interested in retaining long-time fans than gaining new ones._
this is not a sig.
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As the bass player in a fairly successful indie band, I can say that I've been WAITING for this ever since i heard of the Apple Music Store.
We've been using CD Baby to sell our CDs online for two years, and have been doing quite well (though sales at shows still outpace on-line quite a bit). I applaud Derek's initiative in getting involved with the AMS.
The only trick is getting the AMS users to actually listen to your stuff. Sure Crooked Crow can have all its songs available there, but what's to make someone listen to Crooked Crow (other than constant repetition of the name Crooked Crow)?I hate spam. Too salty. Get rid of it to email me.
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One of Derek Siver's comments was this:
* 10 previews (free 30 second listen) for every purchase. Meaning: 10 listens per buy.
What does this mean? Did he just mishear Steve Jobs? I can't imagine what Jobs might have said instead, since I've sampled dozens of tracks before my first purchase.
Also, he reveals that it's Apple that creates the 30-second previews. The previews I've heard have been very good and representative of the piece. Do you think it's algorithmically determined (i.e., always start 10% of the way through)? Or does somebody listen to every track?
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday June 07, @10:08PM (#131)
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As an interesting note on song previews, I sampled a strange one. I was previewing a song that is the last track on the album ("Perfect" by Lifer). It's one of those albums where the last track is longer, with a silence and then a "hidden" song. The preview for this track on the AMS is 30 seconds of silence, which I found rather amusing. You'd think they'd try to avoid silent previews:)
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Sunday June 08, @06:08PM (#12585)
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Yeah, that's really irritating, almost as irritating as the way Mac/ has HTML set as the default when 99.999% of posts are text only.
One workaround I use is to simply duplicate the song and then set beginning and end times for both segments.
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It was under statistics, and he means that for every 10 listens people do through the music store, they average one buy. 10 Listens leads to 1 buy. iTunes is doing better than I thought.
On a side note, I have started to really dig the iTunes Music Store. I only signed up about two weeks ago, but I'm really starting to turn to it as my primary music source. I think the Indie labels would be CRAZY to not sign up for this. Once the Windows version is released, the exposure an Indie band would have would be incredible. It would be like getting WalMart to stock your CD nation-wide. Impressive!
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It seems to mean that there were 10 previews of the song before there was a purchase, on average. So, 10 people listened to the song before someone bought it (or one person listened to it 10 times, you get the idea), not that you get to preview songs 10 times if you buy something.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Sunday June 08, @06:06PM (#12587)
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I suspect the record labels had previews for most of these songs already, just like they probably had most of the cover art already digitized.
Of course, the way things work, there was no doubt a significant amount of material to work through. I'll bet Apple outsourced a lot it since the initial flood is a one-time hurdle.
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I've heard that algorithms to determine the best part of the song, wherever it maybe in the song, already exists as part of a previewing system in Japanese CD stores. Maybe they use a similar program, especially considering 200,000 songs * 4 minutes = An year and a half...
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @10:26AM (#33947)
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200,000 * 4 minutes = A year and a half...
... if you assume that only one person is responsible for creating the samples. This is almost assuredly not the case (if it is indeed a manual process).
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Friday June 06, @10:24AM (#34062)
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Apple made a promise that it would treat a company with 1-2 million dollars in revenue the same as a company with hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue? Surely they jest. The politics of that are simply laughable.
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An AC wrote:
> Apple made a promise that it would treat a company with
> 1-2 million dollars in revenue the same as a company
> with hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue? Surely
> they jest. The politics of that are simply laughable.
Hey, Mothra is laughing. She will be laughing louder when her beloved Apple builds the store up to the point where indie artists, as well as labels, can use it to sell their songs.
Apple, save Mothra's fairies (the artists) from the greedy media sharks, and protect her egg (the Earth). Stomp Mil |
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