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Jaguar First Impressions
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @11:05PM (#1838)
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Yeah, that means you don't have Quartz Extreme. if it has a shadow, you do.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Sunday August 25, @02:05AM (#1842)
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i got my first mac about a month ago, switching (well still using) from linux. One thing linux teaches you is to read tfm.
GPGMail support -is- available. They say clearly on their page that it only works with 10.1.x because "Mail.app changes with every revision" . Now be a good little newbie and go to the GPGMail page, look in the forums, and you'll find a beta release of the plugin and bundle for 10.2's Mail.app. I have it here and it works beautifully.
i sure hate to see people spread bad information.
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First impressions, mind you.
After working all day Saturday, running to CompUSA to buy it, then getting home late, I installed it and only played around a little. The SMB browsing is nice. I couldn't get the Active Directory thing working (yes, I have a Windows 2000 server in my basement), and I couldn't see how to add my wife's HP Deskjet on her PC in Print Monitor. I also did not see any Deskjets listed in the HP choices.
Maybe if I do something manually with CUPS...
Hitting a folder with a lot of images in it that happens to be on an SMB mounted volume is painfully slow.
These are first impressions, mind you. At first I thought it was slow as hell, but then remembered I was installing the developer tools in the background at the time! :-)
Oh, and wtf, for $129 Apple couldn't afford to spend about 50 cents tops on jewel cases for the CDs?
Best part, no annoying need to register or activate, oh, and the transparent terminal window!
I have to play with it more, obviously. I got precious time after getting it installed before I got too tired to care!
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @10:47PM (#1856)
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You've got my request mixed up. What I get NOW is a bunch of almost identical icons in the Dock if I, for example, minimize 4 of my 5 open windows for Word, I get 4 word document icons in the Dock plus the original Word application icon); what I would like is to have those 4 minimized documents shrink INTO the Word application icon. The application icon already has a fly-out listing all its child windows, so the only change to the way the OS works would be that I would have a much cleaner Dock without the tonnes of minimized windows in it.
As for having the Dock in the middle of my desktop: yes, I'd like the option to run it up the left side of my right monitor (for example); then it would be next to where the removable media shows up along the right side of the left monitor. It would leave my left monitor clear for working and put the Dock on the right where my palettes sit. But I'm not saying that you or anyone else should like this option, just that I consider it a flaw in X that my only choices are the far left of the left monitor or the far right of the right.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @07:56PM (#1860)
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> There has to be some functions that could be offloaded to the graphics subsystem,
> no matter how powerful.
Why does there have to be? Apple is pushing the envelope with the graphics in Mac OS X, and Quartz Extreme was clearly built for modern ATI Radeons and NVIDIA graphics systems. An awful lot of progress has been made in graphics processors in the past couple of years ... expecting Quartz Extreme to find anything useful in a three or four year old chip is really expecting a lot.
The other thing to remember is that even if the ATI Rage 128 could theoretically give you a performance boost, it may be prohibitive in just engineering time for Apple to do so. For example, say it takes 100 engineer hours to add support for an ATI Radeon to Quartz Extreme and you get a 200% improvement in speed, and 200 engineer hours to add support for an ATI Rage 128 to Quartz Extreme and you get a 15% improvement. You have to make balances like this.
With all the other great stuff you can get in one of today's Macs, as well as how inexpensive they've become, it's really not worth bitching about how Mac OS X works on your old hardware. Enjoy the stability and connectivity and whatever else and keep in mind that your next machine will probably cost you less than the current one and will have built-in CD and/or DVD burning, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth coming soon, Gigabit Ethernet, 32MB+ VRAM, etc.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @11:47PM (#1861)
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I built the latest emacs 21 sources from cvs, no problem. The new emacs isn't perfect; in particular, the Control-X comtab seemes to be broken in my build (I'll have to investigate further). Nice to have it back, though.
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A drunken tale of adVENTURE!
1. Better speed optimization for "supported" G3 machines. I've got the bomb-digity video cards like the ads suggest but it's still slow on my G3's.
2. Startup times are still wanton like sex slaves on Ecstacy and Viagra.
3. Mail.app isn't quite seXXy enough. I need more pulsating icons and flesh.
4. Cost. I'm a driggity-DRUNK. This "upgrade" cost is quite the hinderance to my normal booze allowance.
5. The iBar. I'm still waiting for the direct Rendezvous connection to my local iBar so I can order iDrinks and have them waiting...
6. iChat is wacky. Cool, yet important features are quite drunken. ( Important and needed in definate times of necessity, like a guys libido after bar close...)
7. MS Exchange compatibility. Yeah, it's fucking sick and wrong, but I still need it for my clients. Can I get a what what?
8. I'm in Wiscompton. I desire battered and fried cheese.
9. Games games games.
10. Server is still a pain in the arse. Wait.. not it's not.. yeah it is.. never mind.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @10:25PM (#1874)
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Mozilla has been crashing more often since some of those security patches for 10.1.5 started coming down. I was hoping that 10.2 was cause it to stop, but it hasn't.
Can't be the mighty lizard. I haven't downloaded a new build for a while...
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Is it possible to have Mail.app show only one Inbox for all accounts or "mailboxes"?
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @10:36PM (#1878)
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I tried them out today, and there were a couple of issues:
1: Installation takes *forever* with the installer getting held up at "0 items remaining to install" and "searching Computer". Then, everything works pretty well.
2: Could print test pages from the Printer Utility just fine, but I couldn't print more than one document in a row from AppleWorks. I'd print one, it would go, then I'd try to print another, and Print Center would get stuck at "opening printer connection".
Luckily, to go back to the old drivers, just open up the DeskJet installer, choose to uninstall (which takes a while too), then insert Disk 2 of the OS 10.2 installer disks, and choose the HP installer, and you're back to 1.4.1! With fast printing! Honestly, the 2.0 drivers are a step backward, and do pretty much the same things as the 1.4.1 drivers included with 10.2. So, until we know that HP's new drivers are actually needed, stick with those that came standard with 10.2.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @10:43PM (#1879)
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>Yeah, that's exactly right. It's too bad, but that's the reality today.
Yep I agree. But when I spent three grand for a computer every other computer company sells for almost half that, I sorta expected more. You ar right though. It is the age we live in!
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No idea, but I have a friend with a newer G4/667 (w/32MB Radeon) and I'll check with him ASAP to see if he has QE & dual display (it's actually his copy of Jaguar I'm trying, but he was too busy last night to install it :).
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @10:46PM (#1881)
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AppleMail is working fine for most everybody else, so why don't you try trashing your preferences? Your mail is in standard mbox format in your Library folder, so it's not like you're going to lose it (back it up, of course, anyway).
Apple should start a new "Spoiled" ad campaign, featuring long-time Mac users whining about how they upgraded their OS through three or four straight revisions and then one application broke. That is what would bring in the Windows users in droves. Those cats are used to losing at least one hardware device per SERVICE PACK (equivalent to going from 10.1.2 to 10.1.3), never mind what kind of hell breaks loose when you try and go a whole point number (such as Windows 2000, which is 5.0, to Windows XP, which is 5.1). And the activation ... the nagware ... the lack of network security, the proprietary formats and protocols, the BUGS ... wow.
Spoiled ... watch for it.
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I just connected to my 19" monitor and used Quartz Extreme Check. Both displays (Ti Book and external) are listed as accelerated.
However, I still can't move the DVD player to the external display. I have also noticed this when using s-video out. Our DVD player died recently and the Ti book has been doubling as on. However, the only way to put the DVD on the television screen through s-video is to use mirroring. I think it is application specific. I can move all other windows to the external source.
Hmm, wonder if the s-video connection will be accelerated. Too tired to try now though...
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I got the same problem. So far, it is the only issue I have noticed with 10.2... I like everything, especially the ability to printer share!
My favorite "fix" is the ability to use a scroll wheel in open dialog boxes. Man that bugged me!
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For starters the help system is incredbly slow, it took almost 5 minutes for it to load on a quicksilver 867.
I encountered the help system when i was trying to get ink to work. Well, the help was no help at all. I have a Wacom Graphire tablet, and i installed the drivers, but the ink panel wont show up, even though i have the 'enable handwriting recognition' button checked.
So, i gave up on ink, and began customizing my computer, and one of the first things i tried to do was change the icons on some folders. All was going well till i tried to change the icon on my home directory, and the applications directory. Those two folders simply wouldn't allow me to change their icon, i wasted a lot of time on that, and i still cant figure waht is wrong.
Now, my other icon gripe, this bug was in the pre 10.1 stages, you can only click on an icon within the icon itself. if you click on an invisible area within the bounding box, nothing happens. Try clicking on the System profiler to see what i mean.
And, my final gripe, i was looking forward to iChat, because i like using buddy icons, but i hate aol's client, so, i live without them and i use adium. So, i fire up ichat, and things seem to work well. but, during my testing, i fired up aol's client, and sent a message to my iChat account. iChat properly displayed the buddy icon i had set in Aol's AIM, yet the official client didnt display my iChat buddy icon. Apparently the buddy icon feature only works with only with people using iChat. Which is all but useless for me.
Ok, enough gripes, now ill say what i like about 10.2. For one, the finder is blazingly fast. I never noticed that 10.1.5 wasnt snappy, but, in comparison to 10.2, its glacial. I am so happy that spring loaded folders are back. Overall, 10.2 was worth it, and i know apple will eventualy fix my problems with it
spikemarket [thespikemarket.com]:stuff for disturbed people
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @10:07PM (#1894)
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I would recommend just removing the Logitech pref pane and logout and back in and see if your problems are fixed. Some of the add-on stuff for 10.1 may not be required at all or may get in the way on 10.2.
You won't see as many changes if you upgrade from 10.1 to 10.2 because your preferences are all still being respected, so you'll have to customize your toolbars again to add new items to them, unless you're using the default set in an app.
A lot of new features are sort of hidden until you need them. You think that not much has changed, but then you plug in a peripheral and it works better, or attach to a network and see that you can do new things. For example, one new feature is that you can plug a second computer into your Wi-Fi equipped computer with an Ethernet cable and 10.2 will share the Internet connection with the second machine ... you don't notice that until a friend stops by with their Toshiba notebook and no Wi-Fi and you can still get them a Web connection just by hooking up to your PowerBook.
Before people complain about the cost of Mac OS X ... man, go to Amazon or whatever and look at the prices of Windows. I have an old blue and white Power Mac G3 here from January 1999 that just got a "free" Mac OS X 10.2 upgrade (it's running 9.2 now) when we bought the family 5-pack for the three other Macs we have that get regular use, and I figured out that this Power Mac G3 went 8.5 (pre-installed), 8.6 ($19.95 shipping and handling), 9.0 ($89), 9.1, 9.2, 10.2 ($50 - 1/4 of the family pack). That's almost four years for $159, which is half the price of Windows XP Pro. BTW, the Power Mac G3 runs Mac OS X just great.
All the "haxie" stuff like old-style Application Menu, customized Apple Menu, transparent Dock and whatnot are the things you EXPECT to break on an OS update like this. Unsanity already had a Jaguar-compatible FruitMenu for me when I showed up to get it today, so this stuff is going to be available for us old-school Mac-heads for quite some time.
10.2 rocks. Just rocks. The fact that I can hook my PowerBook up to almost anything and get results in seconds with no tech-thinking is AMAZING. Rendezvous is amazing, and is worth the upgrade all by itself. If you have a Quartz Extreme -compatible Mac, or an AirPort card, then you will make out just with the new features for that stuff.
SWEET!
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I guess this has been happening for a while, but the new mail.app and ichat really drove it home. The programs keep using bigger and bigger borders/icons/graphics. With the huge boarder, by the time i have 4 ichat windows open, the entire screen on my g3 400 powerbook is full. It started with itunes, and now has spread to all iapps with the brushed titanium look. The new mail icons are just huge. If anyone knows of a way to shrink em, let me know.
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Same problem here, I had it in my firewire box with disk 2 mounted in it when installing 10.2 but it deleted the DVD software anyway.
Using "vlc, Video Lan Client FREE @ VT" for now, but clunkly, but works on my pokey 400mhz G4 Sawtooth.
I can restore my old 3.11 version from 10.1.5 but I wonder if it'll work with 10.2?
If someone out there finds a working patch for DVD player external please let us know.
Thanks, Joe
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @09:29PM (#1903)
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> two ded computers in two weeks and im supposed to be thankfull cuz its better
> than most other companies.
Yeah, that's exactly right. It's too bad, but that's the reality today.
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After a bad install on my TiBook I decided to install it on my Dual800. Install went "Ok." At first attempt it said that the upgrade wasn't not able to be performed. I clicked ok, it rebooted and then I went through it again and it worked.
Second, even after putting in that 2nd CD it did not install the drivers for my Epson 1270. Had to manually install them.
Third: The mailboxes layout is too busy. This is very subjective but I want to go back to one Inbox. I don't want one for each of my accounts. I really don't care where the mail comes from. I hate that iMac icon also.
Fourth: Window resizing is only stutter-free in Apple programs, not including Mail.app. Omniweb, iTunes, Mozilla and everything else is not stutter-free. And this is on a Dual 800, 1GB of memory and a GeForce3 video card.
Fifth: Sherlock appears to be nice but I wonder if I'll really use it. Especially when it takes so long to load those channels and the Apple + f combination no longer launching it.
Haven't had the chance to use iChat and I wish that iCal shipped with it.
Does anyone know of an application which will show me the Quartz Extreme speed improvements?
Thanks.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Sunday August 25, @07:36PM (#1905)
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i am a very happy camper (as they say)
i noticed 10.2 has a windooz style "open with" command. <br>control click and you get a lovely list of available apps!!!<br>yeah!
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Sunday August 25, @07:37PM (#1906)
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I got into the Tyson's Corner Apple store at around 11:40 Friday night, nabbed my 10.2 package (upgrade doesn't seem like the right word since I paid full price) and ran home to install it on my 800MHz TiBook. My hard drive has a relatively comprehensive selection of apps (Office X, Photoshop 7, Illustrator 10, GoLive 6, Macromedia Studio MX, FileMaker 6, Final Cut Pro 3, BBedit, IE, Mozilla, Opera, Mathematica, etc.). The upgrade (I didn't do a clean install) took about an hour, including installing the developer tools. I also have a non-Airport 802.11b network in my house and am doing file and print sharing with Wintel boxen on my network. I must say that the entire upgrade was seamless and perfect for me. Other than the crisper graphics, snappier performance and enhanced apps, I noticed nothing awry after my move to 10.2. Sure, I have a couple of bitches: iChat needs to handle more than just AIM messaging; I'm still waiting for iCal and iSync (though it is cool to be able to drag vCard and vCal items to my iPod); and the printer support (especially when sharing Wintel printers) is still pretty lame. But all in all, I don't feel ripped off.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @09:47PM (#1907)
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Notebooks have slow hard drives, so they boot up slow. Even the fastest notebook hard drive is slower than the slowest modern desktop drives.
I don't miss the smiley Mac. Many people don't even know that it IS a Mac. I could see them using icons of a new iMac (just like you see in Computer in Finder), but the Apple logo looks elegant, and I guess if you're running Linux on your Mac, the Apple logo still gets to make an appearance before the OS loads.
10.2 is just great. We waited through perhaps a decade of various people talking about the "next generation Mac OS" and the even longer wait for a truly reliable and easy to use mainstream computer of any description, especially UNIX, and to me, 10.2 on a modern Mac is _IT_. There isn't anybody I wouldn't recommend this to, provided all your apps run there (even if they still use Classic).
Now I just want my Cubase SX for Mac OS X upgrade. Supposed to come out in September. Wouldn't mind a Pro Tools LE for Mac OS X as well, or at least CoreAudio drivers for the DIGI-001, which is all over the place ... very popular.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @09:38PM (#1908)
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Have a DP 1G that was crashing and acting flaky under 10.1.x -- tried reformatting several times, replaced the hard disk, etc. Finally took machine in for service, and Apple replaced the motherboard.
DP system is FAAAAST and stable under 10.1.5 -- haven't installed 10.2 -- strongly suggest that you take your DP 1G Mac in for service ASAP.
BoPeep
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @09:36PM (#1909)
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Toast is also a hassle to keep updated and confusing to use if you only want to make one kind of disc again and again. One of the beauties of Apple's Disc Burner is that it has a few limited options that everyone uses, so the hybrid disc becomes a standard of sorts.
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My Help Viewer app takes forever to open. Starts up then just white for 10 or more minutes on my Dual 800 Quicksilver! And my friend with a Titanium laptop has it crash every time if opens it from certain aps such as the finder or Address book, but works from other programs!--Jonah Lee
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @11:11PM (#1917)
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Also please tell us exactly which iMac DV 400 you have, as I think there are more than one. Telling us what video card is in it should do it. Also how much RAM do you have? Thank you.
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My impressions:
Spring-loaded Folders: In column view, when you drag over a foler, it opens it in a windows. The whole reason you *use* column view is to get rid of the windows. Why doesn't it just shift over to the next column and flash the border a couple times? Yes, I know if closes all the folders after you finally drop, but.. it's inelegant!
Power Management: When are we going to get back the function that were in the control strip to put the hard-drive to sleep? I have an iMac DV+ with a rather noisy Maxtor drive (91362U3 - much to my chagrin, my Dad has the same computer, but with a Quantum, which is much quieter) and it would be nice to kill the HD when playing CDs, or if it turns on for 3 seconds to load a program or framework..
Not that I'm complaining.. I'm a student developer, so I'll get a copy of Jaguar for free most likely - well not quite considering the ADC program costs $100. I should do some poking in the headers and hack up a 5-minute Cocoa app to spin-down the drive..
I'm hoping Ink will work with my old ADB Wacom with a gMate converter. Probably not :(
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I'll let you in on text display in Mozilla. Its but ass slow in XP as well so don't target the OS layer. Its the way the code is responsive in the XUL Gecko Engine.
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Well, this is a bummer. The iChat Away message does NOT work the same way the AIM client away message works. If you have your Away message set in iChat, either to the standard Away, or to a message of your own design, this message IS available to other iChat users from their buddy list, right under your screen name. AIM and iChat users may also see this message when they Get Info on your screen name.
HOWEVER if an AIM user attempts to chat you by sending an IM, iChat will NOT return an echo of the away message to the sender, which is what AIM does. Grrrr. I liked that functionality in AIM, and sorely miss this being absent in iChat.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @09:52PM (#1925)
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Au contraire -- the 700 MHz iBooks have the minimum necessary 16 MB VRAM and video subsystem, and are able to run Quartz Extreme -- Apple had recommended a minimum of 32 MB VRAM to be able to run QE, but quietly acknowledge that the 16 MB VRAM iBooks will run QE just fine.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @09:59PM (#1926)
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Is this only a problem for those of us with the PowerBook G4 (Gigabit Ethernet), which only has the 16MB ATi Rage Mobile chipset? I was playing with an 800 MHz PowerBook at the Apple Store today: it was spanned to a 23" Cinema Display and it *rocked*. Was as speedy (possibly speedier, but I hadn't stressed it too much) as what I'm running here at home, a 667 MHz TiBook.
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Saturday August 24, @09:33PM (#1927)
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I was getting kernel panics from Norton Utilities for OS X before I deleted it. These popped up when I tried to delete a file that was apparently corrupted. I dropped to the Norton OS 9 bootup, cleaned up the disk, and everything was good.
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I cannot find the dev tools on either CD. However, I only recieved 2 CD's, is there a 3rd? Please help, I would like to install a bumch of stuff I had on 10.1.5 but need those tools. I guess I could install the April 2002 tools but I thought there would be newer ones with 10.2.
help help help
TIA
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by
Anonymous Coward
on Sunday August 25, @12:57AM (#1930)
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I was speaking with a corp suit today from apple, and she said they were in negotiations with all those services to hammer out support and licensing issues. She was confident that it would happen... i mean how cool would it be to be able to get an email from a hotmail account, or yahoo, and hit the chat button and thank that person immediately.
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Thanks for the tip, I'll try that out.
I figured out the problem with SMB, I had overlooked Windows settings...
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Unfortunately Photosmart drivers are not yet available. The Deskjet drivers are.
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